I apologize for the long delay! As always, new word proposals continue to be posted on our Reddit page and Discord server. The Finngreek Youtube channel is temporarily on hiatus, but will become active again sometime later this year. Updates are currently being made to Helleno-Uralic Theory – the basis for the Finngreek language – and I wanted to make this information available to all of you.
Those of you who have followed Finngreek from the beginning know that a multitude of major revisions have taken place regarding the structure of the language and the dissemination of its underlying research. After more than 1.5 years spent on this project, what started as a pipe dream inspired by 90s Finnish pop music has, through a great deal of trial and error, blossomed into a working theory of comparative historical linguistics regarding potential lexical and morphological exchanges between the Uralic and Hellenic languages. However, there is still a lot of work to be done:
– The standardization of Helleno-Uralic orthography and etymological proposals has been (mostly) completed: And this will be reflected in upcoming proposals. Previous proposals will also be reposted over time to reflect these changes. The new Helleno-Uralic orthography – and reconfiguration of proposals – will be explained in an upcoming post.
– A comprehensive introduction to Helleno-Uralic Theory is under development. This introduction will categorize proposals by morphology; and focus on regular phonological diachronica, as well as proposed Helleno-Uralic revisions to Proto-Uralic reconstructions. Upon completion, it will be made available as a PDF.
– Regarding new proposals, focus has for now been shifted away from Finnish, Sami, and Proto-Uralic; and towards Mari, Mordvinic, Permic, Samoyedic, and Ugric. Current studies primarily involve Mari vocabulary, morphology, phonology, and dialectal variation.
If you are a speaker of a Uralic language or a Uralicist, your input is always encouraged and appreciated! That’s all for now. Kídos, sǻmata!
The name for bear in Finnish, Karhu, has been suggested by some to be derived from the adjective Karhea, meaning ‘rough, coarse, uneven’. However, in Finngreek, the opposite seems more suitable: Bear = Karhu = Harku = Άρκος/Άρκου, Αρκούδα Compare with this derived term from Oikos/Οίκος in Greek: Suitable = Oikea = Oikeia = Οικεία
This would make -ea/-eia/-εια a Helleno-Uralic adjectivizing suffix for nouns, to describe being ‘of’ or ‘from’ the noun. Harkeia would still have probably originally referred to bear fur, in particular the outer layer of guard hairs present in bear fur. However, in Finngreek, Harkeia can describe anything like the physical or behavioral properties of a bear.
Slope = Rinne = Riinnæ = Ρίνα
There is also the short form Rin/Riinn per Greek ῥῑ́ν. Riinnæ in Finngreek means ‘slope/hillside/mountainside’, as well as ‘nose’ (Greek). While Proto-Finnic *nenä (nose) bears a resemblance to Rina (compare Estonian Nina), the reconstruction of -e- vs. -i- would make it an irregular doublet, and less likely. If the Uralic etymology for Rinne is correctly from Rinta + -e, it would additionally carry the meaning ‘chest’. This might have a connection with Rinón/Rinós/Ρινόν/Ρινός (shield), with final-syllable stress resulting in metathesis of either -n or -s into -nta. However, if Rinta and Ρινόν are connected, then Rinne would not need to be from Rinta + -e, but rather from Rin/Ris/Ρίν/Ρίς, which may be Pre-Greek.
Musician = Muusikko = Muusikkoo = Μουσικό(ς)
The Finnish word for music, Musiikki, is probably borrowed from Swedish Musik, from Latin Mūsica, from Ancient Greek Mousikḗ/Musikii/Μουσική. However, the term for musician involves what is considered a native Finnish suffix for beings: -kko. This suffix is etymologized as being from Proto-Finnic *-kko(i), from the diminuitive suffix -kka + -o. However, in Greek, -(i)kó(s) is also used to denote beings and likeness – and is seen in the same context as the Finnish suffix: Compare Fyysikko (physician) with Φυσικός, Poliitikko (politician) with Πολιτικός, and Unikko (poppy) with Υπνικό (hypnic). Whether -kko would be a Finngreek feature is unclear, as it would ultimately be from Proto-Indo-European *-kos, which creates deadjectival and desubstantival adjectives denoting a characteristic. However, the geminate -kk- of -kko suggests the final stress of Greek -kó, which results in Finngreek -kkoo.
Room = Huone = Hoore = Χώρε
The Greek word Χώρε, the vocative form of Horos/Χώρος, is considered Pre-Greek. The phonological comparison with Huone involves ώ>oo>uo (compare Proto-Finnic *hooneh and Estonian Hoone), as seen in comparisons like:
The change of VrV>VnV is also seen in comparisons like Puna = Puraa = Πυρρά, meaning ‘red’.
To exert, struggle, try hard = Ponnistaa = Ponniisthae = Πονείσθαι
There is some etymological uncertainty with this proposal. Finnish Ponnistaa has been etymologized from Ponsi, which primarily refers to part of the stamen of a flower. However, it can also refer to ‘vigor’. It is ultimately listed as being from Proto-Finno-Permic *ponte. The Greek Πονείσθαι/Πονέεσθαι is from the verb Πονέω, from Ponos/Πόνος, meaning ‘hard work, bodily exertion, toil’. The comparison of the Finnish verb suffix -(i)staa with the Greek mediopassive ending -(ί)σθαι is considered regular Finngreek. However, while *ponte might be cognate with Pone/Πόνε (vocative of Πόνος), the original meaning – as well as its non-Finnic reflexes – appears to be unavailable online. The *-t- may be akin to the *-p- in Proto-Uralic *kumpa (wave). Compare Greek Kuma/Κύμα. Alternatively, Ponsi might be cognate with Ponisi/Πόνηση, also meaning ‘toil, exertion’.
That which is seen, View, Thought = Νäkymä = Nóhema = Νόημα
These terms are probably not perfect cognates, since Νäkymä is derived from Νäkyä, rather than being directly derived from Νähdä. However, they both go back in Finngreek to Proto-Uralic *näke- (to see) and Greek Νοέω (to see, observe, perceive, think). These näke- and no(h)e- roots are ultimately paired with the -ma(t[a]) suffix, resulting in Finngreek Nóhema (pl. Nohémata). In Finngreek, Nóhema refers to anything that is seen or perceived, such as scenery, photographs, videos, ideas, and dreams.
Night, Waning = Yö<*Üje = Pye/Víi = Πύη
This is a phonologically suitable, but overall unclear proposal. Πύη/Pýe/Píi is listed as a “possibly false reading” of Φθόη in the work of Aretaios, an Ionian physician from Cappadocia; and this would give Πύη the same meaning as Φθίσις: A decline or decay; as well as the waning of the moon. If Πύη is the source of Proto-Uralic *üje, then the night would be akin to the waning or decline of the day.
The phonological basis is as follows: Overwhelming initial p- loss in Uralic reflexes, with p->v- retained in Moksha Ve and Komi-Zyrian Voj. The remaining -ye can be compared with proposals like Työ = Δύη, and Lyö = Λύε. Various Uralic reflexes show at least partial iotacism as occurred into modern Greek Pýe>Píi, such as Kildin Sami Ɨjj, Livonian Īe, Udmurt Uj, and Hungarian Éj.
Sentences help to build Finngreek reading skills while comparing the Finnish and Greek languages through simple phrases. The Finnish and Greek appearing in these comparisons is not always grammatically correct, as the emphasis is on the vocabulary itself. Please only use these texts to learn Finngreek.
It’s such a dim night = On tosi hämärä yö On tosi hamará pye Όν τόση αμαυρά πύη
Your sense of smell is keen = Haistisi sun on kärkevä Haisthisi su on hakrivǽ Αίσθηση σου όν ακριβής
I’ll need a drink of mead, thanks = Tarvitsen mehi-juoma, kiitos Tárphthen methipjóma, kídos Τάρφθην μέθη-πώμα, κύδος
I want a drink of mead, thanks = Tahdon mehu-juoma, kiitos Tátto methupjóma, kídos Τάττω μέθυ-πόμα, κύδος
See the sun shine = Näe päivän lämmetä Nóe phoivon lámpesthæ Νόε φοίβον λάμπεσθαι
I see the sun shine = Näen auringon palaa Nóen aurion phaná Νόειν αύριον φανά
The mouth speaks, then the ear hears = Suu puhuu sitten korva kuulee Stúma phusó kíthen kórra klúe Στύμα φυσά κείθεν κόρρα κλύει
The seer teaches to many = Noita opettaa paljoihin Noitá rophetáze poljoisin Νοητά προφητάζει πολλοίσιν
The seer prophecies the result = Noaidi* ennustaa tulos Noitís ennustáze telos Νοητής εννυστάζει τέλος
The tall tree always grows = Pitkä puu aina kasvaa Psiklé phué aéna havksáne Ψηλή φυή αέναα αυξάνει
This week’s entry is simply a poem with comparative texts. As always, the Finnish and Greek texts aren’t grammatically correct, because they are direct translations of Finngreek terms. Please only use them to learn Finngreek.
Since this is creative writing, the spelling is not standardized like in the lessons, and the word order is free, which may make it more difficult to read. If you’d like an easier text, check out The Fox and the Bear, Part 1.
The order of texts (top left to bottom right) is: Finnish, Finngreek, English, and Greek.
Uusi usma hämärä laaksoihin ennustaa Pilvi-noita nokkela näkee nummen näkymässä
Valomuisti nyt kiihkeä tunne pitkä, mieli puna Aistisi tosi oikea mutta en ton ymmärrä
Ongelma jäädyttää päivän iskusi iskee ydintä Kuulen äänen alkaa puhua sitten sumu lyö vimma
Ja polun elää venho mun eroihin luistaa ryypätä unikko mehu rakastaa opettaa.
Finngreek Stories are designed to help readers learn the Finngreek language. These stories contain comparative texts in Finnish and Greek, to make learning easier. However, as Finngreek is based on ancient etymological comparisons, and has a different grammar from both languages, the Finnish and Greek texts appearing in these stories are not always grammatically correct. Please do not use these texts to study the Finnish and Greek languages: These texts are only for studying Finngreek.
The Fox and The Bear Kettu ja Karhu Kerdo ka Harku Κερδώ και Αρκούδα
The fox is red, and the bear is dark. Kettu on puna ja karhu hämärä on. Kerdo on pura ka harku hamaraa on. Κερδώ όν πυρρά και αρκούδα αμαυρά όν.
The red fox sees the berry-tree. Puna kettu näkee marja-puun. Pura kerdo noheei morja-phueen. Πυρρά κερδώ νοέει μορέα-φυήν.
The dark bear sleeps, but then hears the fox. Hämärä karhu nukkuu, mutta sitten kuulee ketun. Hamaraa harku nukheuuei, muunno kiithen kluuei kerdon. Αμαυρά αρκούδα νυχεύει, μούνο κείθεν κλύει κερδώ.
“Look, fox! It is my food.” Näe, kettu! On ruoka mun. Noe, kerdo! On rooga mu. Νόε, κερδώ! Όν ρώγα μου.
“But I want it, bear! It is red, and a fox is red, so it is suitable for a fox.” Mutta ton tahdon, karhu! On puna, ja kettu on puna, joten on oikeia kettuihin. Muunno ton tatto, harku! On pura, ka kerdo on pura, pjothen on oikeia kerdoisin. Μούνο τον τάττω, αρκούδα! Όν πυρρά, και κερδώ όν πυρρά, πόθεν όν οικεία κερδώισιν.
“It’s mine, fox, as a bear is strong.” On mun, kettu, koska karhu on mahdikas. On mu, kerdo, hos harku mahtikaa on. Όν μου, κερδώ, ως αρκούδα μαχητικά όν.
“A bear is strong, but a fox is too smart.” Karhu on mahdikas, mutta kettu on liian nokkela. Harku on makhetikaa, muunno kerdo on liian noheraa. Αρκούδα όν μαχητικά, μούνο κερδώ όν λίαν νοερά.
The fox awaits the morning-sun in the dark, thick mist. Kettu odottaa aurinkoa hämärä paksu usmassa. Kerdo rodokaa aurino hamaraa pakhu usmaesa. Κερδώ προδοκά αύριον αμαυρά παχύς ύσμα έσω.
The bear sleeps again, as the sun is almost rising. Karhu jälleen nukkuu, koska päivä melkein nostelee. Harku pjallein nukheuuei, hos phoive mellein anostelleei. Αρκούδα πάλιν νυχεύει, ως φοίβε μέλλειν αναστελλέει.
As the light shines, the fox again sees the red tree. Koska palo palaa, kettu jälleen näkee puna puun. Hos phano phanaa, kerdo pjallein noheei pura phueen. Ως φανός φανά, κερδώ πάλιν νοέει πυρρά φυήν.
The fox finds that the bear has shut its eyes*, and then… Kettu löytää karhu sulkee silmän, ja sitten… Kerdo leyttei harku sunkleei thalmon, ka kiithen… Κερδώ λεύττει αρκούδα συγκλείει οφθαλμόν, και κείθεν…
What will happen next? Stay tuned for Part 2!
NOTES: – All words appearing in this story are considered etymologically related in one form or another, except for Finnish Ja and Greek Και (and), where a proposed connection is instead found with Finnish Kaa. This is the basis for Finngreek Ka(a), meaning ‘and/with, too’. – Finngreek Harku can also be written as Harko, given Nganasan Ngarka. The actual comparison involved is Karhu = Harko = Άρκος, but since standard modern Greek uses Αρκούδα, Harku is also an acceptable form. – Κερδώισιν (plural dative form of Κερδώ) is not an attested form, but is constructed based on other nouns with irregular -ώ(-ν, -ς) declension. – *”Harku sunkleei thalmon” literally means “the bear shuts the eye”.
(in arithmetic) those numbers which are equal to the sum of their divisors
the third bowl offered to Zeus
(of the gods) perfect, omnipotent, infinite
(neuter substantive) a royal banquet
(feminine substantive) a full stop, period
(adverb) at last
The Hungarian is ultimately from Proto-Uralic *täwde, with cognates like Nganasan ťerə, Inari Sami tievâs, Finnisη täydellinen (‘perfect’, which I compare with reduplicated τετελεσμένος/tetelesmenos, ‘that which has been perfected’); while the Greek is from PIE *kʷel-. Out of all IE descendants, only Greek presents *kʷ>t. Furthermore, the semantic value of “full, complete” in Greek Τελήεις/Τέλειος does not appear present in IE cognate terms (from what is available on Wikipedia) descended from *kʷel-, itself meaning ‘to move/turn’. This is also the source of *kʷékʷlos > κῠ́κλος/kúklos , which I believe is related to Proto-Uralic *kuŋe, with the listed descendants:
Kamassian: ки (ki)
Hungarian: hó, hold
Erzya: ков (kov)
In Hungarian, telihold is the full moon. I believe the Greek equivalent would be τέλειε κύκλε (or perhaps τελήεν κύκλε). If Τele/Teli=Τελή/Τέλει- are related, Hungarian is phonologically closer to the Greek term than any other IE or Uralic language (with Khanty [also Ugric] tel a close second).