Updates to Finngreek and Helleno-Uralic Theory!

I apologize for the long delay! As always, new word proposals continue to be posted on our Reddit page and Discord server. The Finngreek Youtube channel is temporarily on hiatus, but will become active again sometime later this year. Updates are currently being made to Helleno-Uralic Theory – the basis for the Finngreek language – and I wanted to make this information available to all of you.

Those of you who have followed Finngreek from the beginning know that a multitude of major revisions have taken place regarding the structure of the language and the dissemination of its underlying research. After more than 1.5 years spent on this project, what started as a pipe dream inspired by 90s Finnish pop music has, through a great deal of trial and error, blossomed into a working theory of comparative historical linguistics regarding potential lexical and morphological exchanges between the Uralic and Hellenic languages. However, there is still a lot of work to be done:

– The standardization of Helleno-Uralic orthography and etymological proposals has been (mostly) completed: And this will be reflected in upcoming proposals. Previous proposals will also be reposted over time to reflect these changes. The new Helleno-Uralic orthography – and reconfiguration of proposals – will be explained in an upcoming post.

– A comprehensive introduction to Helleno-Uralic Theory is under development. This introduction will categorize proposals by morphology; and focus on regular phonological diachronica, as well as proposed Helleno-Uralic revisions to Proto-Uralic reconstructions. Upon completion, it will be made available as a PDF.

– Regarding new proposals, focus has for now been shifted away from Finnish, Sami, and Proto-Uralic; and towards Mari, Mordvinic, Permic, Samoyedic, and Ugric. Current studies primarily involve Mari vocabulary, morphology, phonology, and dialectal variation.

If you are a speaker of a Uralic language or a Uralicist, your input is always encouraged and appreciated! That’s all for now. Kídos, sǻmata!

Finngreek This Week: 7 New Proposals

Rough, Bear-like = Karhea = Harkeia = Άρκεια

The name for bear in Finnish, Karhu, has been suggested by some to be derived from the adjective Karhea, meaning ‘rough, coarse, uneven’. However, in Finngreek, the opposite seems more suitable:
Bear = Karhu = Harku = Άρκος/Άρκου, Αρκούδα
Compare with this derived term from Oikos/Οίκος in Greek:
Suitable = Oikea = Oikeia = Οικεία

This would make -ea/-eia/-εια a Helleno-Uralic adjectivizing suffix for nouns, to describe being ‘of’ or ‘from’ the noun. Harkeia would still have probably originally referred to bear fur, in particular the outer layer of guard hairs present in bear fur. However, in Finngreek, Harkeia can describe anything like the physical or behavioral properties of a bear.

Slope = Rinne = Riinnæ = Ρίνα

There is also the short form Rin/Riinn per Greek ῥῑ́ν. Riinnæ in Finngreek means ‘slope/hillside/mountainside’, as well as ‘nose’ (Greek). While Proto-Finnic *nenä (nose) bears a resemblance to Rina (compare Estonian Nina), the reconstruction of -e- vs. -i- would make it an irregular doublet, and less likely. If the Uralic etymology for Rinne is correctly from Rinta + -e, it would additionally carry the meaning ‘chest’. This might have a connection with Rinón/Rinós/Ρινόν/Ρινός (shield), with final-syllable stress resulting in metathesis of either -n or -s into -nta. However, if Rinta and Ρινόν are connected, then Rinne would not need to be from Rinta + -e, but rather from Rin/Ris/Ρίν/Ρίς, which may be Pre-Greek.

Musician = Muusikko = Muusikkoo = Μουσικό(ς)

The Finnish word for music, Musiikki, is probably borrowed from Swedish Musik, from Latin Mūsica, from Ancient Greek Mousikḗ/Musikii/Μουσική. However, the term for musician involves what is considered a native Finnish suffix for beings: -kko. This suffix is etymologized as being from Proto-Finnic *-kko(i), from the diminuitive suffix -kka + -o. However, in Greek, -(i)kó(s) is also used to denote beings and likeness – and is seen in the same context as the Finnish suffix: Compare Fyysikko (physician) with Φυσικός, Poliitikko (politician) with Πολιτικός, and Unikko (poppy) with Υπνικό (hypnic). Whether -kko would be a Finngreek feature is unclear, as it would ultimately be from Proto-Indo-European *-kos, which creates deadjectival and desubstantival adjectives denoting a characteristic. However, the geminate -kk- of -kko suggests the final stress of Greek -kó, which results in Finngreek -kkoo.

Room = Huone = Hoore = Χώρε

The Greek word Χώρε, the vocative form of Horos/Χώρος, is considered Pre-Greek. The phonological comparison with Huone involves ώ>oo>uo (compare Proto-Finnic *hooneh and Estonian Hoone), as seen in comparisons like:

Body/Person, Finn = Suoma = Sooma = Σώμα
Drink = Juoma = Pjooma = Πώμα
Food, Grape/Berry, Seed/Clove = Ruoka = Rooga = Ρώγα

The change of VrV>VnV is also seen in comparisons like Puna = Puraa = Πυρρά, meaning ‘red’.

To exert, struggle, try hard = Ponnistaa = Ponniisthae = Πονείσθαι

There is some etymological uncertainty with this proposal. Finnish Ponnistaa has been etymologized from Ponsi, which primarily refers to part of the stamen of a flower. However, it can also refer to ‘vigor’. It is ultimately listed as being from Proto-Finno-Permic *ponte. The Greek Πονείσθαι/Πονέεσθαι is from the verb Πονέω, from Ponos/Πόνος, meaning ‘hard work, bodily exertion, toil’. The comparison of the Finnish verb suffix -(i)staa with the Greek mediopassive ending -(ί)σθαι is considered regular Finngreek. However, while *ponte might be cognate with Pone/Πόνε (vocative of Πόνος), the original meaning – as well as its non-Finnic reflexes – appears to be unavailable online. The *-t- may be akin to the *-p- in Proto-Uralic *kumpa (wave). Compare Greek Kuma/Κύμα. Alternatively, Ponsi might be cognate with Ponisi/Πόνηση, also meaning ‘toil, exertion’.

That which is seen, View, Thought =
Νäkymä = Nóhema = Νόημα

These terms are probably not perfect cognates, since Νäkymä is derived from Νäkyä, rather than being directly derived from Νähdä. However, they both go back in Finngreek to Proto-Uralic *näke- (to see) and Greek Νοέω (to see, observe, perceive, think). These näke- and no(h)e- roots are ultimately paired with the -ma(t[a]) suffix, resulting in Finngreek Nóhema (pl. Nohémata). In Finngreek, Nóhema refers to anything that is seen or perceived, such as scenery, photographs, videos, ideas, and dreams.

Night, Waning = Yö<*Üje = Pye/Víi = Πύη

This is a phonologically suitable, but overall unclear proposal. Πύη/Pýe/Píi is listed as a “possibly false reading” of Φθόη in the work of Aretaios, an Ionian physician from Cappadocia; and this would give Πύη the same meaning as Φθίσις: A decline or decay; as well as the waning of the moon. If Πύη is the source of Proto-Uralic *üje, then the night would be akin to the waning or decline of the day.

The phonological basis is as follows: Overwhelming initial p- loss in Uralic reflexes, with p->v- retained in Moksha Ve and Komi-Zyrian Voj. The remaining -ye can be compared with proposals like Työ = Δύη, and Lyö = Λύε. Various Uralic reflexes show at least partial iotacism as occurred into modern Greek Pýe>Píi, such as Kildin Sami Ɨjj, Livonian Īe, Udmurt Uj, and Hungarian Éj.

Finngreek Sentences 1

Sentences help to build Finngreek reading skills while comparing the Finnish and Greek languages through simple phrases. The Finnish and Greek appearing in these comparisons is not always grammatically correct, as the emphasis is on the vocabulary itself. Please only use these texts to learn Finngreek.

It’s such a dim night =
On tosi hämärä yö
On tosi hamará pye
Όν τόση αμαυρά πύη

Your sense of smell is keen =
Haistisi sun on kärkevä
Haisthisi su on hakrivǽ
Αίσθηση σου όν ακριβής

I’ll need a drink of mead, thanks =
Tarvitsen mehi-juoma, kiitos
Tárphthen methipjóma, kídos
Τάρφθην μέθη-πώμα, κύδος

I want a drink of mead, thanks =
Tahdon mehu-juoma, kiitos
Tátto methupjóma, kídos
Τάττω μέθυ-πόμα, κύδος

See the sun shine =
Näe päivän lämmetä
Nóe phoivon lámpesthæ
Νόε φοίβον λάμπεσθαι

I see the sun shine =
Näen auringon palaa
Nóen aurion phaná
Νόειν αύριον φανά

The mouth speaks, then the ear hears =
Suu puhuu sitten korva kuulee
Stúma phusó kíthen kórra klúe
Στύμα φυσά κείθεν κόρρα κλύει

The seer teaches to many =
Noita opettaa paljoihin
Noitá rophetáze poljoisin
Νοητά προφητάζει πολλοίσιν

The seer prophecies the result =
Noaidi* ennustaa tulos
Noitís ennustáze telos
Νοητής εννυστάζει τέλος

The tall tree always grows =
Pitkä puu aina kasvaa
Psiklé phué aéna havksáne
Ψηλή φυή αέναα αυξάνει

(*Noaidi is the North Sami form)




Finngreek Writing: “Tosi Oikeia” (So True)

This week’s entry is simply a poem with comparative texts. As always, the Finnish and Greek texts aren’t grammatically correct, because they are direct translations of Finngreek terms. Please only use them to learn Finngreek.

Since this is creative writing, the spelling is not standardized like in the lessons, and the word order is free, which may make it more difficult to read. If you’d like an easier text, check out The Fox and the Bear, Part 1.

The order of texts (top left to bottom right) is: Finnish, Finngreek, English, and Greek.

Tosi Oikea

Uusi usma hämärä
laaksoihin ennustaa
Pilvi-noita nokkela
näkee nummen näkymässä

Valomuisti nyt kiihkeä
tunne pitkä, mieli puna
Aistisi tosi oikea
mutta en ton ymmärrä

Ongelma jäädyttää päivän
iskusi iskee ydintä
Kuulen äänen alkaa puhua
sitten sumu lyö vimma

Ja polun elää venho mun
eroihin luistaa
ryypätä unikko mehu
rakastaa opettaa.

Tosi Oikeia

Auuthi usma hamará
laakkoisin ennustáze
Nephéli-noita noherá
noh
ée nomén nohemase

Phanomvisti nyn kiikeia
thumé psilé, mielé purá
Aistisi tosi oikeia
muunno den ton emperatá

Roglema pjægdystæ phoivon
iskusi iskii pyrína
Kluuen aden arka phusoo
kiithen sumpu lye víma

Ka poron elá venos mu
etéroisin ulistáne
Ryphestæ uvnikkoo methu
eráhestæ rophetáze.

So True

Anew, the dim mist
oneiromances to the valleys
The wise cloud witch
sees the heath in view

The memory of light now a frenzy
the feeling high, the mind red
The sense is so true
but I don’t understand it

The problem freezes the sun
the impact overpowers the core
I hear the voice begin to speak
then the fog destroys suffering

And my boat goes on the path
sliding into differences
drinking the hypnic mead
loving to teach.

Τόση Οικεία

Αύθι ύσμα αμαυρά
λάκκοισιν εννυστάζει
Νεφέλη-νοητά νοερά
νοέει νομήν νόημα σε

Φανομνήστη νυν κυκεία
θυμέ ψηλέ, μυελέ πυρρά
Αίσθηση τόση οικεία
μούνο δεν τον εμπερατώ

Πρόβλημα πήγνυσθαι Φοίβον
ίσχυση ισχύει πυρήνα
Κλύειν αυδήν άρχει φυσά
κείθεν συμπύκνωμα λύει πήμα

Και πόρον ελά βήνος μου
ετέροισιν ολισθάνει
ροφέεσθαι υπνικό μέθυ
εράεσθαι προφητάζει.

If you have a question about the etymology or usage of any words here, please let me know.

Hungarian-Hellenic Affinity: Teljes = Τelḗeis (Τελήεις)

(This post is not written as an article, but just notes about my proposal of affinity between the following Hungarian [and thereby Uralic] and Hellenic terms.)

teljes (also **tele/teli** for ‘full’):

entire, full, total

complete

τελήεις/telḗeis:

(of sacrificial victims) complete, perfect, entire, without blemish

(of animals and humans) full-grown, adult

Related to, and largely synonymous with…

τέλειος:

having reached its end, finished

(of victims) complete, perfect, entire, without blemish

(of animals and humans) full-grown, adult

(of persons) absolute, complete, accomplished, perfect

(of things)

(of prayers, vows, etc.) fulfilled, accomplished

(of numbers) full, complete

(in arithmetic) those numbers which are equal to the sum of their divisors

the third bowl offered to Zeus

(of the gods) perfect, omnipotent, infinite

last

(neuter substantive) a royal banquet

(feminine substantive) a full stop, period

(adverb) at last

completely, absolutely

The Hungarian is ultimately from Proto-Uralic *täwde, with cognates like Nganasan ťerə, Inari Sami tievâs, Finnisη täydellinen (‘perfect’, which I compare with reduplicated τετελεσμένος/tetelesmenos, ‘that which has been perfected’); while the Greek is from PIE *kʷel-. Out of all IE descendants, only Greek presents *kʷ>t. Furthermore, the semantic value of “full, complete” in Greek Τελήεις/Τέλειος does not appear present in IE cognate terms (from what is available on Wikipedia) descended from *kʷel-, itself meaning ‘to move/turn’. This is also the source of *kʷékʷlos > κῠ́κλος/kúklos , which I believe is related to Proto-Uralic *kuŋe, with the listed descendants:

Samoyedic: *kïj

Kamassian: ки (ki)

Ugric:

Hungarian: hó, hold

Mordvinic:

Erzya: ков (kov)

Finnic: *kuu

In Hungarian, telihold is the full moon. I believe the Greek equivalent would be τέλειε κύκλε (or perhaps τελήεν κύκλε). If Τele/Teli=Τελή/Τέλει- are related, Hungarian is phonologically closer to the Greek term than any other IE or Uralic language (with Khanty [also Ugric] tel a close second).